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Post by Agriotherium on Jun 20, 2011 1:25:35 GMT -9
It look like caucasian bear, but is it caucasian beer indeed?
There are two subspieces of brown bear in Caucasus - U. a. caucasica (looks like european brown bear) & U. a. syriacus.
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Post by grrraaahhh on Jun 20, 2011 6:49:12 GMT -9
It look like caucasian bear, but is it caucasian beer indeed? There are two subspieces of brown bear in Caucasus - U. a. caucasica (looks like european brown bear) & U. a. syriacus. Apologies....I moved your post.... normally specific bear profile posts are locked except for staff but there will always be a relating discussion thread available to everyone. Regarding your question, the photograph was obtained from a Russian wildlife organization. The location is correct. From the literature, we know there exist in the Caucasus region large form of brown bear with large skull but also there exist smaller form of brown bear (very interesting skull morphology for Caucasus brown bear) each shaped or mutated over the centuries time to their distinct ecosystem. Here, we are probably looking at of an overlap between the subspecies of European and Asian brown bear.  Caucasus brown bear (appearance similar to bear profile photo).  Armenian brown bear.  Captive Syrian brown bear. www.flickr.com/photos/lilcrabbygal/482557747/ |
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Post by Agriotherium on Jun 22, 2011 0:35:39 GMT -9
Bears of Armenia belong to U.a.caucasicus & U.a.syriacus.
Good pictures, thanx.
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Post by grrraaahhh on Jun 22, 2011 6:33:58 GMT -9
Recent molecular research on Caucasus brown bear taxonomy: Abstract: The taxonomic status of brown bears in the Caucasus remains unclear. Several morphs or subspecies have been identified from the morphological (craniological) data, but the status of each of these subspecies has never been verified by molecular genetic methods. We analysed mitochondrial DNA sequences (control region) to reveal phylogenetic relationships and infer divergence time between brown bear subpopulations in the Caucasus. We estimated migration and gene flow from both mitochondrial DNA and microsatellite allele frequencies, and identified possible barriers to gene flow among the subpopulations. Our suggestion is that all Caucasian bears belong to the nominal subspecies of Ursus arctos. Our results revealed two genetically and geographically distinct maternal haplogroups: one from the Lesser Caucasus and the other one from the Greater Caucasus. The genetic divergence between these haplogroups dates as far back as the beginning of human colonization of the Caucasus. Our analysis of the least-cost distances between the subpopulations suggests humans as a major barrier to gene flow. The low genetic differentiation inferred from microsatellite allele frequencies indicates that gene flow between the two populations in the Caucasus is maintained through the movements of male brown bears. The Likhi Ridge that connects the Greater and Lesser Caucasus mountains is the most likely corridor for this migration. Murtskhvaladze M, Gavashelishvili A, Tarkhnishvili D. Geographic and genetic boundaries of brown bear (Ursus arctos) population in the Caucasus. Mol Ecol 2010 May; 19(9):1829-41. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2010.04610.x/abstractFor decades, brown bear taxonomy has been a source of great confusion. For example if we look at North America there are U. a. dali, U. a. gyas, U. a. sitkensis , etc. Modern genetic (molecular) research explains there are two forms of brown bears in North America: U. a. middendorffi (Kodiak bear) & U. a. horribilis (grizzly bear). Historically in the Caucasus we have seen U. a. Meridionalis, U. a. lasistanicus, U. a. caucasica, U. a. syriacus, U. a. arctos, etc. Modern biologists value more genetic data over the older geographic and morphological taxonomy explanation. You might find the following thread link(s) useful. shaggygod.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=generalinfo&action=display&thread=573&page=1 |
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Post by grrraaahhh on Jun 22, 2011 15:36:51 GMT -9
Murtskhvaladze M, Gavashelishvili A, Tarkhnishvili D. Geographic and genetic boundaries of brown bear (Ursus arctos) population in the Caucasus. Mol Ecol 2010 May; 19(9):1829-41. Brief follow up... "Our study indicates that mitochondrial haplotypes from the Caucasus belong to a clade that contains bears from Eastern Europe and Asia. Based on our data and other molecular genetic studies (Taberlet & Bouvet 1994; Miller et al. 2006), there are no firm grounds for further separating this clade into geographic subspecies, and we suggest that brown bears from the Caucasus should be attributed to the nominal subspecies of Ursus arctos. Our study revealed two genetically and geographically distinct haplogroups of brown bears in the Caucasus, which diverged from each other around the Last Glacial Maximum. Matrilineally, the Greater Caucasian subpopulation is significantly monophyletic and distinct from bears from the Lesser Caucasus. In contrast, there is no clear genetic differentiation between the two subregions inferred from the analysis of nuclear microsatellite genotypic data." |
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Post by grrraaahhh on Jun 25, 2011 9:22:01 GMT -9
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ktkc
New Member
Posts: 28 
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Post by ktkc on Aug 12, 2011 4:37:38 GMT -9
Grahhh, are Syrian brown bear brown bear and the Caucasus not a same subspecies?
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Post by grrraaahhh on Aug 12, 2011 13:20:57 GMT -9
Grahhh, are Syrian brown bear brown bear and the Caucasus not a same subspecies? For Caucasus brown bear...from the same thread.....see reply # 3 & # 4. For Syrian brown bear.... read the following..... Genetic diversity of endangered brown bear (Ursus arctos) populations at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa...... PDF LINK: www.sebastiencalvignac.fr/downloads/calvignac2009syrianbrownbear.pdf |
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ktkc
New Member
Posts: 28
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Post by ktkc on Aug 12, 2011 21:28:39 GMT -9
Thank you, brown bears' classification is very complex.
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Post by grrraaahhh on Aug 13, 2011 2:27:52 GMT -9
I agree. Genetic testing provide scientist a lot of taxonomic answers but also help conservation efforts for example the reintroduction of bears to a former/historical range....however, thorough testing from extant bears & fossil bears is needed for greater clarification. Then there is to consider the conservation benefits of the use of old incorrect taxonomic classification for example U.a.gobiensis & U.a. isabellinus. The larger public is familiar with the Gobi brown bear more so than U.a.isabellinus designation which recent mtDNA has identified both sharing the same ancient clade - as it relates to conservation financial support; the classification use of Gobi brown bear has more appeal (the same can be said for other bear populations...i.e., existing larger public visibility has its advantages).
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ktkc
New Member
Posts: 28
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Post by ktkc on Aug 13, 2011 4:44:45 GMT -9
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ktkc
New Member
Posts: 28
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Post by ktkc on Aug 13, 2011 4:47:57 GMT -9
Grahhh, I think we should make a picture "Distribution of brown bear subspecies", let more animal fans know about brown bears' subspecies.
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Post by grrraaahhh on Aug 13, 2011 16:43:17 GMT -9
Sort of....same author, same research area, but the pending article which has been submitted which is referenced below...... Subspecies in Mongolia: Offcially recognised as a distinct taxon during an expedition by the Science Committee of the Mongolian People’s Republic in 1943 (Bannikov, 1954). Described as a distinct species Ursus gobiensis, by Sokolov and Orlov (1992), however, this designation was based on morphological assessment of a limited sample of specimens and has since been questioned (Schaller limited sample of specimens and has since been questioned (Schaller et al., 1993; McCarthy, 1999). Re-identifed as a subspecies, U. a. pruinosus Blyth, 1854, this was later shown to be a misidentifcation, as Mongolia is not included in the geographic range of this subspecies and chronological investigation of a limited number of skull samples showed it to be distinct. In 1980, Sokolov and Orlov re-identified this taxon as U. a. isabellinus. Recent analysis of genetic samples taken from across the geographic range of U. a. isabellinus (Horsfield, 1826) suggests that this subspecies represents a monophyletic lineage which includes the Gobi bear, therefore U. a. gobiensis may represent a junior synonym of this subspecies (Galbraith et al., submitted). It is hoped that further DNA analysis will reveal the true status of this taxon, but in the absence of sympatric or parapatric occurrence of populations of U. a. isabellinus and U. a. gobiensis, the Gobi bear is currently retained as a valid subspecies on the basis of its apparently distinctive morphology (H. Reynolds, pers. comm.).has not been published; Galbreath, G.J., Groves, C.P. and Waits, L.P. (submitted). Genetic and morphological distinctness of Ursus arctos isabellinus Horsfield and the frost bear U. pruinosus Blyth. Submitted to Molecular Ecology. Grahhh, I think we should make a picture "Distribution of brown bear subspecies", let more animal fans know about brown bears' subspecies. That's a good idea but I am not sure if it will help people or confuse them (taxonomy topic can be challenging). If we do decide to provide such data (I think I am in agreement with you as this topic will appeal to the serious enthusiast) I will probably include it in the following thread: shaggygod.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=generalinfo&action=display&thread=672For in depth sub specie information people can read & contribute in the Extant (In Depth) section. |
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Post by grrraaahhh on Nov 11, 2011 14:10:57 GMT -9
 Caucasus brown bear. |
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